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4:55
Hi everybody. I'm John Berlingame. I
4:58
write about film and TV music for
4:59
variety. And after that, what else is
5:02
there to say? But please welcome Oscar,
5:04
Emmy, and Grammy winning composer
5:06
Michael Jacino.
5:19
Hi everyone.
5:24
Well, first little bit of business here.
5:27
I I feel like this man is a consmate
5:30
journalist. And when I think of
5:32
journalists, one thing comes to mind in
5:34
my head because I'm old. Uh it's what's
5:37
in this box. And this is for you. I
5:39
brought this for you. Should I open it
5:40
now?
5:41
>> Yes. Oh, of course. That would be so
5:43
mean. They would be like, "What did you
5:45
get?"
5:51
>> And it's got a press card.
5:54
>> Oh, great.
5:55
>> Everything in there.
5:56
>> Oh, thanks, man.
5:58
>> No, no,
6:05
it matches, too.
6:08
You look good.
6:09
>> So,
6:11
>> that montage uh was just a great
6:14
reminder of how many of your projects
6:16
over the years have come under the
6:17
Disney umbrella.
6:19
>> I know. So, I No, I mean I mean that in
6:22
that like sitting back there hearing
6:23
that is like seeing my life flash before
6:25
my eyes like wow.
6:27
>> I mean Disney animation, ABC TV series,
6:30
Pixar, Disney live action, Marvel,
6:32
Lucasfilm, it's really extraordinary.
6:34
>> Video games.
6:35
>> And the video games. Yeah, but people
6:38
may not know that your history with
6:40
Disney actually goes back even before
6:42
your music credits.
6:44
>> Yeah, way before.
6:44
>> Can you talk about that a little bit?
6:46
>> I was working for Disney I think in
6:48
around 1991. I worked in publicity for
6:51
about 5 years actually and I started my
6:53
career working for Disney in publicity
6:55
and it was one of those things like that
6:57
was my day job and I was going to that
6:59
was my equivalent of waiting tables
7:01
while I tried to get my real life going,
7:04
you know. Um, and during that time when
7:07
I was working in publicity, I kept
7:08
thinking, "Oh, I just want to get to
7:09
this next step, this next step." But now
7:12
when I look back on it, working in
7:14
publicity was one of the best things
7:15
that ever happened to me. It taught me
7:17
so much just about the business of what
7:20
we do. I got to meet with producers. I
7:22
got to work with all of the filmmakers
7:24
as we're, you know, putting out their
7:25
films. And, you know, in publicity, I
7:27
was helping to organize interviews and
7:28
doing all this stuff. you're, you know,
7:30
doing what you do to to sell the film so
7:32
that everyone knows it exists and and
7:34
they can go see it. And that was just an
7:36
incredible aspect of the film industry
7:38
that I was not taught when I was in
7:40
school. You know, they don't teach you
7:42
all of this other stuff generally. And
7:45
it was uh it was incredible. It was the
7:47
best.
7:47
>> Do you have any memory of working on a
7:49
publicity campaign for the Rocketeer?
7:51
>> Oh,
7:53
in fact, yes, I do. That sounds like one
7:55
of those Johnny Carson interviews where
7:56
it was like, "Oh, yeah. We talked about
7:58
that backstage, didn't we? Um,
8:01
yes. I there was I was in New York City.
8:03
We were having the premiere of the
8:04
Rocketeer and there was someone hired to
8:07
to dress up as the Rocketeer and come
8:09
and run around and do all of the uh
8:11
stuff at the premiere and meet the fans
8:13
and everything. And I uh came to work
8:16
and they said, "The guy's not the guy's
8:18
sick. He's not going to show up. He we
8:20
need someone to dress up as the
8:21
Rocketeer and run around at the
8:23
premiere." And and I was like, "I'll do
8:25
it." So, but you can see in is this
8:28
picture upgraded. All right. So, you can
8:30
see in this photo of me, I put the
8:32
stupid backpack thing outside the
8:34
leather jacket. How terrible. Like I I
8:37
you know, so I still look at that and
8:38
go, "H, what an idiot."
8:41
They knew it wasn't the real Rocketeer.
8:43
Not to mention, I'm not 6 feet. Like,
8:45
what's his name? So,
8:47
>> when did music cross over into your
8:50
Disney career? Well, even at that time
8:53
when I was working in publicity, I was
8:55
writing music on the side. I had a band.
8:57
I played bars. We did, you know, a lot
8:59
of stuff like that.
9:00
>> This is in New York, right?
9:00
>> This is in New York. Yeah. And um but I
9:03
was always writing it and learning it on
9:04
the side. It was honestly I've been
9:06
making movies since I was 9 years old.
9:08
Music was never the thing I thought that
9:10
I would do with my life. Never once
9:12
entered my mind. I thought I'd be
9:13
directing. I thought I'd be making
9:14
movies in some capacity, even just doing
9:17
special effects, blowing up models and
9:18
things like that, which I loved. Um, but
9:21
I was always I always loved music and I
9:23
always was interested and curious about
9:25
it. So when I got to New York City after
9:27
I graduated from film school, I started
9:29
taking classes at the uh at Giuliard,
9:32
>> right?
9:33
>> Because I was like, I want to learn
9:34
about orchestration and I want to learn
9:36
learn about instrumentation and all this
9:37
and I just kind of did it. And the great
9:39
thing about it was my boss there at the
9:42
time, Michael Scmentante, still around,
9:44
great guy, uh, he was the one said,
9:46
"Hey, Disney has this program. Well,
9:47
they'll pay for continuing ed if it has
9:50
something to do with your job
9:51
description. So, he wrote up this whole
9:53
thing about how me going to get, you
9:56
know, classes at Giuliard would help
9:58
with my future at Disney. And they ended
10:00
up paying for those classes uh for me,
10:02
which was incredible, you know, um not
10:05
knowing that that would then spiral into
10:07
this career that I've had, but you know,
10:09
that was that. But then I went to a job
10:12
opened in LA and so they said, "Do you
10:14
want to move to LA?" And I was like,
10:15
"Yes, I want to move to LA." So I moved
10:17
everything out to LA and I did the same
10:20
thing. My boss in LA, Gary Kalin, I
10:22
worked for Gary Kalin and also Terry
10:24
Press at the time and it was uh during
10:27
Michael Eisner was still there, Jeffrey
10:29
Katzenberg was there. Um but they had a
10:31
similar program in LA. If you want to go
10:32
to continuing education, it has
10:35
something to do with you. So my boss
10:36
Gary was so kind and he did the same
10:38
thing for me and I would take night
10:39
classes at UCLA and and I was learning
10:42
about again orchestration,
10:43
instrumentation, writing and I also
10:44
started writing things to picture then
10:46
too with a teacher named Don Ray.
10:48
>> Oh, sure.
10:49
>> Don Ray wrote and he wrote music for
10:50
Hawaii 5 and all of these great shows
10:52
back in the in the 60s and 70s. Um all
10:55
of which I love those shows. So I was
10:58
doing it on the side always. And then
11:00
while I was in marketing one time they
11:03
they needed new jingle for something.
11:05
There was like this they had this thing
11:06
called movie news, right, that they
11:08
would play on the radio back when people
11:10
listened to the radio. Uh there was this
11:12
thing called radio um there and and they
11:16
they they needed a jingle for it. Now
11:18
you have to understand the movie news
11:20
thing was just like a a roose like it
11:22
was like a a way saying, "Hey, here's
11:24
some news about the latest movies coming
11:26
out." Of course, it was all Disney
11:27
movies and it was basically they were
11:29
just selling something, but they needed
11:30
a jingle. So I said, "Hey, can I write
11:32
the jingle for the thing?" And I
11:34
remember Terry saying, "Well, I'll let
11:36
you submit one blindly. You can submit.
11:38
We'll we'll look at all of the
11:39
submissions blindly, you know." Um, so I
11:42
went home and I wrote something and I
11:43
recorded it and sent it to them.
11:45
>> And they picked yours.
11:46
>> And they picked mine. Yeah. And I got
11:47
paid $2,000,
11:51
>> which was like
11:51
>> a lot of money.
11:52
>> $2 million to me at the time, you know.
11:54
Um, but all that money went right back
11:56
into buying some music equipment and
11:58
things like that. So
11:59
>> So did you score Disney games?
12:02
>> I did. Then I went to after I was in
12:03
publicity, I went to work as an
12:05
assistant producer at in the interactive
12:07
department and I was working on like
12:10
Pinocchio. I was working on uh The Lion
12:12
King video game. Yeah. Gargoyles. Maui
12:16
Mauard was a really fun one. And again,
12:18
it was I wasn't there to write music. I
12:20
was actually producing the games, but
12:22
they knew that I wrote music. So what
12:24
always happened was there would
12:25
inevitably be some sort of meeting that
12:27
would come up in a hurry and they would
12:28
say, "Oh, we need a piece of music,
12:30
Michael. Can you just write a piece of
12:31
music for this? we could put it against
12:32
the thing. So I would do that and uh and
12:36
the thing that the time that changed my
12:38
life was when I I had left Disney for a
12:41
short while. I started my own I had an
12:43
animation company for like almost two
12:45
years maybe. Um, but we were doing
12:48
development for DreamWorks, which had
12:49
just started up and I was building, you
12:52
know, we were doing animated stuff,
12:53
trying to figure out what we were going
12:54
to do and and uh I wrote a piece of
12:58
music like it was one of those things. I
13:00
went in one morning uh the producer for
13:02
the Lost World video game cuz Steven was
13:04
shooting Steven Spielberg was shooting
13:05
the Lost World at the time and they were
13:07
doing a video game based on that and he
13:09
would come in all the time because he
13:10
loved video games. His kids were young
13:11
at the time and they were all into video
13:13
games so he was really really curious
13:14
about it all. So they had a panic
13:17
moment. Steven's coming in tomorrow. He
13:19
would always drive in on the way to set
13:20
early. He would just surprise people and
13:22
we need to show him something, but we
13:24
want some original music behind it.
13:25
Could you put this behind it? And it was
13:27
a scene where these copies that they're
13:29
like these little dinosaurs. And so I
13:31
wrote this piece of music, brought it in
13:33
the next morning, gave it to uh Patrick
13:34
Gilmore, who was the producer at the
13:36
time on the project, and went back to my
13:39
office, didn't think anything of it. A
13:40
couple hours later, phone rings. Uh it's
13:43
Patrick. He says, "Get down here cuz
13:45
Steven wants to talk to you." And I was
13:47
like, and literally I was like, "Stephen
13:49
who?"
13:52
Never in my mind, but I think Steven
13:54
Spielberg would say, "Hey, come down. I
13:55
want to talk to you." Um, but he did.
13:58
And I I there was an escalator there.
14:00
And it was really funny because I I ran
14:02
to the top of the escalator and I was
14:04
like about to run down the stairs just
14:06
to get there cuz I didn't want to be
14:07
late or keep him waiting. And as I start
14:10
to run down the stairs, I see that he's
14:11
right at the bottom of the escalator.
14:14
And I panicked. I didn't know what to
14:16
do. Like, do I continue running down the
14:17
stairs like an idiot or do I just stop
14:20
and look cool and just sort of like
14:22
slowly come down? I opted to stop and
14:25
look cool. Uh, and I just watched as I
14:28
got closer and closer to him and he was
14:30
it was like a shot in his movies. We
14:32
were just like right up to Elliot's
14:34
face, you know, kind of a thing. and uh
14:37
and he was so kind and so supportive and
14:39
honestly he was the guy he didn't have
14:42
to do this he was like you should score
14:43
the game I love the music uh and we're
14:45
going to use a live orchestra and we're
14:47
going to you know and that changed
14:49
everything for me and from that moment
14:51
it was just like this crazy ride because
14:54
I did that video game I did a couple I
14:57
did Medal of Honor for him after that
14:59
and then JJ Abrams he played all those
15:02
video games so he heard the music and
15:04
then he called me out of the blue and
15:05
was like Hey, I love this music. Do you
15:07
want to work on this show that I'm doing
15:09
for ABC called Blah, I mean called
15:11
Alias.
15:12
>> Alias.
15:12
>> And I was like, uh, sure. I had never
15:15
done a television show before. Uh, but
15:17
JJ loved the music and he was like,
15:19
let's let's meet. So, we met. We
15:21
instantly got along and it was like and
15:23
then that was that for that, you know,
15:24
alias happened. And then when uh uh when
15:29
the Incredibles came around, am I
15:31
jumping ahead? You want me to I'm just
15:33
trying to tie all this together, but
15:34
you're
15:35
>> we're almost to the Incredals, but let
15:36
me ask you quickly about Lost, which
15:38
which followed Alias.
15:39
>> Yep.
15:40
>> And and uh
15:42
>> Yeah.
15:43
>> Look at the stats on the screen here,
15:45
which I find fascinating. Um over the
15:47
course of how many seasons? Six.
15:50
>> Yeah.
15:50
>> You scored uh nearly 52 hours.
15:53
>> 52 hours of music cuz every every
15:55
episode we wanted to have an original
15:57
score. So,
15:58
>> and a and a and an orchestra.
15:59
>> And an orchestra. Yeah. Well, IAS was
16:01
the same thing. And it was because, you
16:03
know, they didn't want us to be spending
16:05
money on an orchestra. They they did not
16:07
want that, you know, and but JJ went and
16:09
fought for it. Yeah. And because he grew
16:11
up, he was a huge film score nerd. He
16:13
loves film music, too. So, he was like,
16:14
"No, this has to be real." And because
16:17
he did that, we were able to
16:18
>> then have the orchestra every week. So,
16:20
when Lost came around,
16:21
>> it was like, "Well, we already did it,
16:23
so this is how we do it, so we're going
16:24
to do it again." And it was one of those
16:26
things. I remember trying to figure out,
16:28
oh, what's Lost going to be like? what's
16:30
that gonna I I I you know they gave me a
16:32
lot of freedom to make it what I wanted.
16:34
I have to say they were very very kind
16:36
and great collaborators in that at at
16:38
that you know for that and I didn't have
16:40
to make it. It's one of those shows that
16:42
I feel like or at least one of those
16:44
things that I wrote that I feel like is
16:45
probably the most me
16:47
>> you know of everything because I didn't
16:49
have it wasn't like oh this is a spy
16:51
thing or this is this type of movie or
16:54
this. It was just like, well, whatever
16:55
you think it should be, just just do it
16:57
because we're busy making the next
16:59
episode and we don't have time to do it.
17:00
>> And Lost is filled with mysteries,
17:02
>> completely filled with mysteries. And it
17:04
was I never read the script. I never
17:06
wanted to read the scripts because I
17:08
felt like in in some way would, you
17:10
know, I would be giving away something
17:12
in the music somehow. So, I always would
17:14
just get the episode and watch it and
17:16
try as best as I could to just write it
17:18
as I was going in order so that when
17:21
something shocking came up, the music
17:23
would be as surprised as you would be
17:25
watching it, you know. So, I was sort of
17:27
watching it as a fan at the same time as
17:29
I was working on it,
17:30
>> which was the perfect way to approach
17:31
it.
17:32
>> Yeah, it was really fun.
17:33
>> So, you mentioned The Incredibles. We
17:34
need to move on to that and a couple of
17:36
other Pixar films that I'm sure you've
17:38
all seen. How did you get The
17:40
Incredibles? because I don't see the
17:42
connection between
17:43
>> why did I get the I was like why would
17:44
they give me this this this idiot this
17:47
this this giant Pixar movie
17:49
>> and you were pretty much untried in the
17:51
feature film world
17:52
>> I'd never done a no this was my first
17:54
movie that was in a theater ever ever
17:57
you know again it was like the TV show
17:59
Alias I'd never done a TV show I mean
18:01
but but but for whatever reason you know
18:04
I went and met with Brad and I remember
18:07
Brad Bird Yeah and and he I was nervous
18:10
nervous going up to Pixar because Randy
18:12
Newman is a hero of mine. He's the
18:14
greatest. Thomas Newman saying, you
18:16
know, and these are the people that had
18:17
been scoring these films up to that
18:19
point. And then Michael who like what is
18:23
the you know so I went up met with Brad
18:25
and I thought well this will just be I
18:27
get to see Pixar I get to say hello I'll
18:30
go home and not get the job. Um but as
18:33
soon as Brad and I met we instantly
18:35
clicked and we started talking about
18:36
Johnny Quest. Oh, the great Hannah
18:38
Barbara show from the
18:40
>> 60s. Yes. Yes. It's it is the best. And
18:43
Hoy Curtain wrote the music for that
18:45
show. And I'm sure you know it. It's
18:47
It's such great music. And Brad and I
18:49
just went off on this show how much we
18:51
love this show. So, we really just
18:53
bonded. I could feel everyone else in
18:55
the room being like, "Oh my god, what
18:56
did we do?" Uh, but we were like two
18:59
little kids who met in the park and was
19:01
just like, "Oh my god, you like Johnny
19:03
Quest, too. I like Johnny Quest. What's
19:04
your favorite episode?" But it was so
19:06
geeky. And so time like I met I went
19:10
home. I ended up writing some music as a
19:13
demo cuz you know I was unproven. So I
19:15
wrote took home some of the pieces of
19:17
the film. One of them was 100 mile dash
19:20
and I wrote this out. We went and
19:22
recorded it and I sent it and we
19:25
presented the whole thing. They liked
19:26
it. They were said thank you. They all
19:28
left and then weeks went by. I hadn't
19:30
heard anything and I was like oh well I
19:32
guess that didn't work out. And I sort
19:34
of then the phone rang and they said, "I
19:36
have Brad Bird for you." And I was like,
19:37
"Oh, here here it comes. Sorry, it's not
19:40
working out." And he goes, "All right,
19:42
kid. You have the job. You have the
19:45
job." He goes, I was like, "Oh my god,
19:46
this is great. Thank you." He goes, "But
19:48
wait, wait, wait. It's the hardest job
19:50
you're ever going to have." And he goes,
19:52
"And I need you to know that your music
19:55
could just totally ruin my movie."
19:59
>> And I was like, "Oh my god,
20:00
>> no pressure here." I said, "Well, I I'm
20:03
going to work really hard." He goes,
20:04
"No, no. What I mean is if you and I are
20:07
not handinand every step of the way
20:10
telling the exact same story, the
20:12
audience is going to start thinking
20:13
things we don't want them to think and
20:15
they're going to start feeling things we
20:16
don't want them to feel. So, it's
20:18
important you and I stay together the
20:20
whole time." And it was like one of the
20:22
most I think about it every time I work
20:24
on a film, the fact that he said that
20:25
because it's so true. Like a lot of
20:28
composers who come to do this job are
20:31
musicians first, you know, they went to
20:34
music school, didn't go to film school,
20:35
didn't do all that. I'm a film nerd
20:37
first. So, I'm all about like for me it
20:40
was always about all the storytelling
20:42
and the characters and and music in some
20:44
way almost was secondary to it because
20:47
it needed to work underneath those other
20:49
things, right? Um, so he would I think
20:52
about that always like making sure that
20:54
whatever I'm doing is right for the
20:57
characters. What would I feel like if I
20:59
was going through that? Uh, we have a
21:02
clip that we want to play of uh,
21:05
Oh yeah, this was at the recording.
21:58
Now, who's that? That is the great
21:59
Gordon Goodwin. Give Gordon
22:02
He uh we sadly lost Gordon this year to
22:05
cancer, which really sucks. He was one
22:08
of the most talented musicians I had
22:10
ever met.
22:10
>> And a great big band.
22:11
>> Oh my gosh. His he had an amazing big
22:13
band called The Big Fat Band. They were
22:15
just incredible. um he was the best. So
22:17
he did the arrangement of the the end
22:19
credits for both movies and he was just
22:21
a joy to work with.
22:23
>> So did this lead directly then to you
22:25
working on Ratatouille?
22:27
>> Yes. Now, we were supposed to do Brad
22:29
and I had talked about another film we
22:31
were supposed to do after The
22:32
Incredibles, you know, and it was
22:34
supposed to be a film about like he
22:36
wanted to do this film about the 1906
22:38
earthquake, you know, and that was going
22:40
to be we're doing that film next. And I
22:42
was so excited. And then I remember I I
22:44
could still picture where I was in the
22:46
front uh yard of my house getting out of
22:48
the car with the kids and and the phone
22:50
rang. It was Brad and he's like, "Hey,
22:52
you haven't been? I want to talk to
22:53
you." And I'm like, "Yeah, sure. What's
22:55
going on?" And he's like, "You know the
22:56
film that we we're not going to do that
22:58
one. We're going to do a different
22:59
thing." And I was like, "Well, what what
23:01
is it?" He goes, "We're going to do this
23:03
other thing. It's about a rat that wants
23:05
to cook."
23:08
And I was like, "No,
23:11
no, this is not what you promised me.
23:13
No." He'd be like, "I know. I know. I
23:16
know." He goes, "But we really need
23:18
that, you know, I I want to jump in and
23:19
help them with this. They're in a bind
23:21
and it could be a really really good
23:23
movie." And I'm just like, how how this
23:25
would be a good movie. But of course,
23:27
never doubt Brad Bird ever, right? I've
23:30
learned that many times over.
23:32
>> It's such a charming score and has
23:33
French flavors in the music.
23:36
>> Well, it's got everything in it. And the
23:37
way Brad, you know, I remember spoke
23:40
about it at the time. He was like, I
23:41
want this score to feel like you just
23:42
got home from work. You didn't really
23:44
plan for dinner. So, you go through all
23:46
the cupboards. What do you have? I got a
23:48
little of this, a little of that, a
23:49
little bit of this, little. He goes,
23:50
"That's how I want you to treat the
23:52
music in the movie. Don't be afraid. If
23:54
there's a sound or an instrument you
23:55
want to use, just go for it." And that's
23:57
why there's like whistling and there's
24:00
harmonica and there's all this like just
24:02
weird stuff going on in the movie like
24:04
all over the place is because he just he
24:06
wanted it to feel like something a chef
24:07
would make.
24:08
>> And how are your cooking skills?
24:10
>> Oh, pretty good actually. Yes. I mean I
24:13
there's a bunch of I like Italian food
24:15
like making pastas and sauces and stuff
24:17
like that. I mean, you know, but there
24:18
there's levels of that in my family. And
24:21
I'm probably like like I'm the middle
24:23
child. I'm probably also the middle in
24:24
in the cooking between my brother John
24:27
and my sister are quite quite good at
24:29
it. There there's John right there.
24:32
>> And and Maria is behind the scenes.
24:34
>> Oh yeah. Somewhere she's pushing these
24:35
buttons, I think.
24:37
>> So to quickly stick with Brad for a
24:39
second, you've also done liveaction
24:42
films with him too, including
24:44
Tomorrowland.
24:44
>> Yes. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yes. You're in
24:47
Tomorrowland?
24:47
>> I am in Tomorrowland. Yes. It was like
24:49
uh you know, we did Mission Impossible
24:52
Ghost Protocol together and then we did
24:53
Tomorrowland and he's like, "Hey, I I
24:56
got a part for you. Uh do you want to
24:58
play like the uh the guy who operates
25:00
the ride at the World's Fair?" I'm like,
25:02
"Yes, of course." So, uh there I am,
25:06
clean shaven. Uh it's so crazy. And his
25:09
name There's a whole backstory for this
25:11
guy.
25:12
>> His name is
25:12
>> Wait, there's a backstory for your
25:14
character?
25:14
>> Yes, John. I'm I'm a I'm a professional.
25:18
I'm a professional. So, uh there his
25:21
they gave me the the badge and it said
25:23
Mike on it. So So his name is Mike
25:25
Lazarus and Mike at the time of the
25:28
World's Fair, you know, the Beatles were
25:30
coming into all of the new music was
25:32
starting to come about. Well, Mike was a
25:34
kuner from the ' 60s and Mike had a
25:36
great career working stage, you know,
25:38
doing stage thing, doing like Sinatra
25:40
type stuff. And then when the Beatles
25:42
came in, lost his jobs, lost his gigs,
25:44
no one would hire him, so he had to work
25:46
the World's Fair. And this is it. Now, I
25:49
pitched a whole opening to this. I was
25:51
like, I said, "Here's how it opens." I
25:53
said, "It's camera facing straight down
25:55
on the the on the river that the um the
25:58
small world ride goes in, right? And
26:00
boats are going through, boats, another
26:02
one passes, and then there's a body that
26:04
floats past." I said, "That's me." And
26:07
my head bumps into the next boat. I
26:09
said, and then we flash back to when
26:11
Mike was young. Kroner, this Don't you
26:14
want to see this movie?
26:15
>> Yes. Yes.
26:18
>> Um, just quickly, uh, you mentioned
26:20
Small World.
26:21
>> Yes.
26:22
>> Which makes me wonder about working with
26:24
the great Richard Sherman
26:26
on this school.
26:27
>> Yes. I have to say, you know, you you
26:30
get into this field and you're doing
26:33
your work and you're just worried about,
26:35
okay, how do I keep this going? What do
26:36
I do next? But but you end up bumping
26:38
into these people along the way. And
26:40
sometimes the people you bump into are
26:42
your heroes in in in the biggest way.
26:45
And you know they say don't meet your
26:47
heroes. Well this in this case it was
26:49
the opposite. It was like he is the
26:51
greatest. He was the most kind, most
26:54
fun. Just Yes.
26:56
And we should mention in case you don't
26:58
know Richard and Robert Sherman wrote
27:00
all the songs for Mary Poppins. Yes. And
27:02
with the Winnie the Pooh theme.
27:04
>> Yes. and and and it's a great big
27:06
beautiful tomorrow which you used here
27:08
>> which we used in the film and and he so
27:10
he I got to meet him and we became good
27:12
friends over time and it was really just
27:14
one of the great joys of my life getting
27:15
to to know him
27:16
>> and we have a clip by the way.
27:18
>> Yeah. Well, he came by the session when
27:19
we were recording some stuff for the
27:20
film and yeah let's just show this
27:22
thing. It's kind of sweet.
27:34
Heat.
27:45
Heat.
27:55
just a dream.
27:58
>> You know, he never sounded better.
28:02
>> It was so cool.
28:07
>> Yeah, we miss him. He was great.
28:10
>> We should talk about Up,
28:12
>> which
28:15
won you an Academy Award and which to
28:17
this day still brings us to tears. Um,
28:20
I'm sure you all remember the married
28:21
life sequence with Carl and Ellie.
28:24
>> So, this was this was Pete Doctor's
28:26
film. Yeah. Tell us about how it came
28:29
about working with Pete and and why
28:33
connected with people.
28:34
>> I mean, I have to give a big thanks to
28:36
John Williams because he said no to this
28:38
movie.
28:42
>> So, thank you, John. Uh, I'm not sure
28:45
why he said no, but they did ask him
28:47
first, but
28:49
See you later. Um,
28:52
no. I love John. He's the best. But that
28:54
is true. He did uh he did say no. But so
28:57
I think Pete called Brad said, "Hey, how
29:00
was it working with Michael? Did you
29:02
like working with Michael?" And uh Brad
29:05
was very complimentary and very nice and
29:07
and so they set up a meeting between
29:08
Pete and I. And with Pete, it was very
29:12
similar to the way it was with Brad,
29:14
except I would say even geekier, you
29:17
know. Um, like for example, one of the
29:18
first times we hung out, we were down in
29:20
LA and we and he said, "Hey, I I have to
29:22
go to Disneyland tonight. Do you want to
29:24
go down there to do some stuff? I have
29:26
to I'm going to go backstage and check
29:27
out some some of the stuff cuz I even
29:29
forget why we were going." I think he
29:31
wanted to ride the Rivers of America.
29:33
He's really He loves that so much. So, I
29:35
was like, "Yeah, sure." So, we get into
29:37
my car. I said, "I'll drive." You know,
29:38
and he's like, "All right." So, we all
29:40
pile into my car. I start the car. And
29:42
you know back in the day you start the
29:44
car if you left the radio on whatever it
29:46
was on is you know whether CD or
29:47
something was just going to keep
29:48
blasting. So I I turn it on the car is
29:53
blasting the Muppets
29:56
and and not just like the Muppet but a
29:59
deep cut of Marvin Marvin Scrugs Marvin
30:02
Shrugs uh you know this crazy track for
30:04
the Anyway
30:05
>> and I reached to go turn it off and it
30:08
was and Pete stopped me from turning.
30:10
It's like, I love this one.
30:13
>> So, we just listened to the Muppets all
30:15
the way down to Anaheim. Uh, and that
30:17
was like our meat cute, I guess you
30:19
could say.
30:19
>> Yes. Yeah.
30:22
>> Um, and uh what are what are you doing
30:24
here with your hat? And what is that?
30:26
Where was that thing?
30:27
>> We God only knows. We were uh we would
30:30
Yes. I have no idea. That was somewhere.
30:32
I remember we used to make little short
30:34
films, too. we'd have to go through all
30:36
of these like PR things and do all this
30:38
publicity for this for the movie during
30:40
awards season and we would just goof
30:41
around as much as possible because uh
30:44
you know it's it's a lot of work doing
30:45
that stuff.
30:46
>> We we have a a clip of uh you and Pete
30:48
in the recording sessions.
30:50
>> Okay.
30:55
>> Michael videaping
30:57
me videotaping me.
31:28
Yeah. See, see, we're very professional.
31:32
Um, but I do want to ask you, these are
31:35
obviously three great beloved early
31:38
Pixar films. Incredibles, Ratatouille,
31:40
Up,
31:41
>> but they're all very different.
31:42
>> Yeah.
31:43
>> Even though, um, they're all animated
31:47
and they have people in them. Um, how do
31:50
you approach each one individually? What
31:54
is there a general approach, a general
31:56
thinking that goes on? I mean, it it
31:58
it's the same as I would approach a live
32:00
action film. I mean, these are real
32:02
characters to me. I you have to treat
32:04
them as real characters. You can't say,
32:06
"Oh, look at the cartoony. So cute. I'm
32:08
going to write cute music." You know, it
32:10
doesn't work that way. It never feels
32:11
truthful. It never lands. You can always
32:14
tell when you're watching a movie where
32:16
there's just a disconnect between the
32:18
music and the film itself, you know? So,
32:21
I like to, you know, look at them all
32:23
individually and and create something
32:26
that really only belongs to that
32:28
particular movie. I think that, you
32:30
know, I I think about my grandfather a
32:32
lot during this because he was a tailor
32:34
and he was very he would make clothes
32:36
for people and he make them fit
32:37
perfectly for you. He would hem our
32:39
clothes and and uh you know, always make
32:41
us things that that we could wear and
32:43
and he was always careful to make sure
32:45
that it fit. Everything was great. And I
32:48
and I think sometimes like that's what I
32:50
do. I'm creating a musical suit for this
32:53
story, right? And I bespoke.
32:54
>> Yeah. A bespoke suit that only fits this
32:57
movie. Like you can't really take the
32:59
music from Up and put it into The
33:01
Incredibles. It's not going to work. You
33:04
know, I want it to fit the story and be
33:06
as much a character as the people on
33:08
screen. Um, and that's that's the fun of
33:10
writing music for movies and for
33:12
stories. Another Pixar film of note also
33:15
with Pete Doctor was Inside Out.
33:18
>> Yes. Yeah.
33:19
>> Which remains a favorite for many of us.
33:21
Um and I'm wondering and talk about
33:24
depicting emotions,
33:26
>> which you have to do all the time in
33:28
every score. Here
33:30
>> we're looking at them.
33:31
>> You're looking you're literally looking
33:32
at them.
33:32
>> Talk to me about how you approached this
33:34
one.
33:35
>> Well, this I have a daughter. She is now
33:38
26 years old. Um but but at the time she
33:41
was little. she was young. So it was
33:43
very much uh a reflection of her you
33:47
know for you know thinking about this
33:49
the story itself and about you know uh
33:52
the characters growing up being the age
33:54
they are and watching Gracie my daughter
33:56
go through similar things and just so
33:59
much of it was just sort of internally
34:01
reflecting about that you know and
34:04
because that's what the movie is about
34:06
right and and and and it's always about
34:09
finding the most truthful version of the
34:11
music you can write and if it can come
34:13
from a place of experience or empathy
34:16
that's always going to be the best
34:18
version. So, I was really thinking about
34:20
her and her friends and and even Pete's
34:22
daughter Ellie at the time who Gracie
34:25
and Ellie kind of grew up they're best
34:26
friends now. Like they grew up together,
34:28
you know, they they they they met on on
34:30
these movies and they used to hang out
34:32
and whenever we would get together, the
34:34
girls would be there, too. So, all the
34:35
kids kind of grew up together. So, it
34:37
was really a love letter to them in a
34:39
lot of ways and and and but it also
34:41
makes you look at yourself. You know, a
34:43
lot of times you work on these things
34:44
and they're mirrors to hold up to
34:47
yourself and and then you find yourself
34:49
evaluating your own life and your own
34:51
self doing all this weird self therapy.
34:53
It's it's it's such a strange thing. But
34:55
working on music for films, for me
34:58
anyway, it's a very emotional experience
35:00
because you have to kind of at least I
35:02
have to kind of get in so deep. I need
35:05
to understand those emotions, which
35:07
means you're feeling those emotions
35:09
while you're working. So at the end of
35:10
the day, you're exhausted. You know, at
35:12
least I am. And the last thing I want to
35:14
do is sort of like I just always need a
35:16
bit of separation before starting real
35:18
life again because you know, you're
35:20
living in these this world. And
35:21
sometimes you can be living in a fun
35:22
world. Sometimes you're living in an
35:23
action world, but sometimes it's like
35:25
I'm los constantly about crying and
35:28
tears. It was like just years of that,
35:30
you know, you can imagine. And and if
35:32
that's the process, and it is for me,
35:34
it's it's you're really having to dig
35:36
deep.
35:37
>> Yeah. We have a clip uh from inside out
35:39
and this is this is of the percussion
35:41
guy.
35:42
>> Yeah. Let me explain this first. So the
35:43
the I truly believe work should be fun.
35:48
Whatever it is you do, there should be
35:49
something about it that you enjoy,
35:51
right? And and and so the rule of thumb
35:52
for me is we're going to have fun this
35:54
week. We're going to record a whole
35:55
score. It's going to be hard. We have a
35:56
lot to do, but we're going to have fun
35:58
doing it. And what I love about this
36:00
clip is this is sort of the this sort of
36:02
the example of that. These guys were in
36:05
the back booth. you'll see um them in
36:07
the booth, but know that just outside
36:09
the booth door is the entire orchestra.
36:11
So, sometimes we break things up. We'll
36:13
put the percussion in a booth so we can
36:15
have separate control over that. The
36:17
whole orchestra will be out in the room,
36:19
but they're always playing together. The
36:21
whole orchestra is always playing
36:22
together. So, these guys were in the
36:23
back booth and they decided to film
36:25
themselves during one of the cues. And I
36:27
got a hold of this thing. I was like,
36:28
"Oh, this is so joyful." And then I put
36:30
it to picture here so you can see.
36:34
so much is bugging. Okay, first day of
36:38
school is very, very exciting. Last
36:40
night, figuring out a new plan. Here it
36:42
is. Hey, I need a list of all the
36:44
possible negative outcomes on the first
36:46
day of the new
36:48
meteor.
36:49
>> Disgusting. Make sure Riley stands out
36:51
today, but also blend in. When Riley
36:53
will look so good, the other kids their
36:55
own outfit and charge. Joy. Yes, Joy.
36:58
You'll be in charge of the console,
36:59
keeping Riley happy all day long. And I
37:01
love your dress. It's adorable. Oh, this
37:03
whole thing. Thank you so much. I look
37:04
away from
37:06
3:00 right on schedule.
37:11
>> Unload the day. I ordered extra in case
37:13
things get slow and class
37:16
or useless, which it probably will be.
37:19
>> Oh, sadness. I have a super important
37:22
job just for you. Really? Mhm. Follow
37:24
me.
37:29
>> There. Perfect. This is the circle of
37:31
sadness. Your job is to make sure that
37:34
all the sadness stays inside of it.
37:37
>> So, you want me to just stand here?
37:39
>> Hey, it's not my place to tell you how
37:41
to do your job. Just make sure that all
37:45
the sadness stays in the circle. See,
37:48
you're a pro at this. Isn't this fun?
37:50
No.
37:53
We are going to have a good day. Turn
37:54
into turn into a beer. Turn into a good
37:57
life. So today school
38:08
welcome you
38:12
I'm
38:21
a great
38:29
>> Are you sure we want to do this?
38:31
>> And we go.
38:43
That was uh Bernie Dressel on drums,
38:46
Walter Rodriguez on this thing and and
38:49
then Alex Akunia on this thing. Uh the
38:53
three of them are just incredible,
38:54
incredible percussionists. I've worked
38:55
on everything with them. Uh, the players
38:57
are everything with the when it comes to
38:59
the music because, you know, I can sit
39:01
here and write as much music as I want,
39:03
but if I don't have somebody to play it,
39:05
it's nothing. It's just black dots on a
39:08
page.
39:08
>> And I want to ask you in general,
39:09
>> yeah, the musicians and you have Yeah.
39:14
>> Because
39:16
the other thing to understand is like
39:17
when they go to record something like
39:19
that, they have never seen this music
39:21
before. They don't practice this at
39:22
home. They don't rehearse it. They just
39:24
show up that day knowing that they are
39:26
good enough to play whatever you hand
39:28
them and so they have no clue. So they
39:30
just jump in and do it and it is amazing
39:33
to watch and every single time. You'd
39:35
think you I would be bored of that by
39:37
now but I'm not. It still amazes me
39:39
every time we get together and record.
39:41
>> Talk to me. You use the orchestra almost
39:45
every time you score a film. uh when you
39:48
could use electronics or other more
39:51
modern technological elements of music
39:53
making. Why is the orchestra important?
39:55
>> That AI, John, are you talking
39:59
>> but but the orchestra is clearly
40:00
important to you?
40:01
>> The orchestra is a living organism of
40:03
emotion. That's what it is. You know,
40:05
it's Yes.
40:10
It's it it's why we feel what we feel
40:14
when we're watching these films. is such
40:16
a huge part of it. And that is because
40:18
there are a hundred living, breathing
40:21
humans out there on the floor playing it
40:24
with all they got, with every bit of
40:26
emotion they got, they're playing it.
40:27
And that you can't help but feel that.
40:29
And it is like when you stand in front
40:31
of the orchestra and listen to it, it is
40:34
so powerful. You just you're not ready
40:36
for it. Every single time it happens,
40:37
you're not ready for it. And it's really
40:39
a beautiful thing. And I I have such
40:41
respect and love for all of them because
40:43
it's, you know, to be s if I sat there
40:46
and did this on a computer be so boring
40:49
and that would totally go against the
40:50
let's have fun thing. So So we cannot do
40:53
that. Uh and I and I hope we never get
40:56
to and look I like electronic music too
40:58
and I'll use synths in in a lot of the
41:00
work I do. I mean in in in in Spider-Man
41:02
there's a tons of really fun crazy synth
41:04
work but but behind it all is someone
41:07
real,
41:07
>> you know? It has to be. And I think
41:09
that's what we all really want anyway.
41:10
Nobody wants to sit there and go watch a
41:12
computer, right? So,
41:18
another Pixar classic is Coco.
41:21
>> Yeah. Which which has an especially
41:24
colorful story. Um and and it I felt
41:27
like I was in Mexico when I was
41:30
listening as well as watching. Can you
41:32
talk a little bit about the uh uh the
41:34
authenticity maybe that's necessary?
41:36
Well, that was very important to all of
41:38
us on the film to make sure whatever we
41:40
did, it was legit and that felt right,
41:42
you know, um because you can so easily
41:45
just kind of get off track and do
41:47
something that feels just like a a
41:49
normal generic film score for any kind
41:51
of for movie like this. And we didn't we
41:53
didn't want that. We wanted something
41:54
that felt like you were there. Um Camilo
41:57
Lara was one of the who is like
41:59
incredible Mexican musician, Mexican
42:01
Institute of Sound. Go listen to it on
42:03
your Spotify list or whatever you listen
42:05
to. He's awesome. Mexican Institute of
42:08
Town. Write it down. Um, but he was the
42:11
the consultant on the film. And so
42:13
anytime I had questions about anything,
42:15
I could go to him and he would teach me
42:17
about like, oh, this area of Mexico has
42:20
this kind of music. And I learned so
42:22
much about all the different regions and
42:24
all the different styles. You know, you
42:26
kind of have this idea going in, oh, I I
42:29
know what Mexican music is. You know,
42:31
uh, it's it's mariachi. It's, you know,
42:34
all the things we sort of know
42:35
>> like cliches
42:36
>> cliches. By the way, I love mariachi
42:38
music. I just, you know, but after being
42:41
with him and working on this film, it
42:42
was like getting a master class in what
42:44
music from Mexico really is. And it's
42:47
just incredible. So, for me, it was an
42:48
incredible gift that whole project with
42:50
to be able to to work with them and and
42:52
and meet everybody and work with the
42:53
different musicians. It was just it was
42:55
just great. And Lee Lee was Lee it was
42:58
funny like
42:59
>> so I had worked with at that po up to
43:01
that point almost all the different
43:03
directors at Pixar Andrew Stan included
43:06
in all of them and I remember I was up
43:08
there and I'm going I was walking
43:09
through the parking lot up at Pixar and
43:11
I'm going back to my car and I hear
43:13
someone say Michael.
43:15
I turn around it's Leech the director of
43:17
of Coco and he says to me I'm I'm just
43:21
wondering I noticed you worked with all
43:23
the other directors here. how come we
43:25
haven't worked together yet? And I was
43:28
like, well, Lee, probably because you
43:30
haven't asked me.
43:33
He's like, huh? Okay. And then a little
43:35
bit after that, that's when he called
43:37
and said, "Hey, I'm doing this thing,
43:38
Coco. Would you want to?" You know,
43:40
which was great. And I was so happy.
43:41
It's really one of my all-time favorite
43:44
projects I ever got to be a part of.
43:45
It's such a special special film.
43:47
>> And we have a quick clip of a recording
43:49
session for that.
43:56
That's That's Pedro.
44:24
I mean, come on. How cool is that?
44:28
>> Like when we do um concerts, that one in
44:30
particular is always a fun one to play
44:32
in concert. Just really a blast. The
44:34
musicians get you you get, you know, cut
44:36
them loose, let them go, have fun, do
44:37
their thing.
44:38
>> I have to ask about another Disney
44:40
animation favorite, which is Zootopia.
44:43
>> Oh, yes. Yes. Yes.
44:44
>> One and two.
44:45
>> Yeah. you know, Zootopa is the only
44:47
that's the only Disney animated thing
44:49
I've done, you know,
44:50
>> which is a surprise that I did Prep and
44:53
Landing and and some smaller things like
44:55
that which were were really great. But
44:57
as far as features go, that's that was
44:58
the that's Zootopia is it for me at
45:00
Disney. Yeah.
45:01
>> So funny. My wife and I watched it just
45:03
last night.
45:04
>> Oh, yeah.
45:04
>> And and you just can't get enough. I
45:06
mean, I love the DMV scenes with the
45:07
slogans.
45:08
>> It's it is so detailed and layered and
45:11
funny and beautiful and emotional. that
45:14
that that movie is is just incredible.
45:16
And that was I you know I remember the
45:19
first time I saw the movie it was like
45:21
they were still not hadn't figured it
45:23
out yet and they showed me a version of
45:26
it when and it was really loose and I
45:28
was like huh I don't know is this going
45:30
to come together and I remember at the
45:32
time they were like no no no this is
45:34
just early come back in 6 months and
45:36
we'll have a whole thing and true to
45:38
their word came back in 6 months and it
45:39
was like I was like oh my god this is
45:41
amazing this is incredible you know um
45:44
and then of course the second one just
45:45
went nuts in the world. So, it's uh it's
45:47
always fun.
45:49
>> So, tell us about scoring Rogue One.
45:56
>> Well, of course, a Star Wars movie.
45:58
>> Yeah.
45:58
>> And if you do a Star Wars movie, do you
46:01
have to sort of stay in the John
46:03
Williams lane
46:04
>> or can you depart from it?
46:06
>> Well, I mean, I think there's certain
46:08
things you want to you want to remain
46:09
you want to remain? I mean, this is we
46:11
all love Star Wars and we all, you know,
46:14
have our own version of what the best
46:16
version of Star Wars is. Whatever. Some
46:18
people like the prequels, some people
46:19
like the originals, all of that. But one
46:21
thing they all have in common is John.
46:22
And I don't think you can ignore that.
46:24
And you shouldn't ignore that. You know
46:25
that. But the thing you want to do is
46:28
exactly what Brad said, which was stick
46:31
with the story first.
46:32
>> Story first, nostalgia second. because
46:35
it's very easy on something like Star
46:37
Wars just to slip into a nostal, oh, if
46:39
I just play this theme here, they'll go
46:41
crazy, you know, but it may not work for
46:43
the story, you know, and and and so
46:45
there's danger in doing that. So, I was
46:48
super careful to make sure whatever I
46:50
did use that was John's was right for
46:53
that particular moment. I didn't want to
46:55
just plaster the thing with, you know,
46:57
nostalgia. It wouldn't have done the
47:00
film any any good. So, there was a very
47:02
calculated making sure that everything
47:04
was was, you know, sort of laid out the
47:07
way I wanted it to work. And I was
47:09
looking at it from the point of view of
47:10
of a 10-year-old kid who listened to
47:12
that Star Wars album over and over and
47:15
over and over. And it was where I first
47:17
learned actually about sort of the
47:19
orchestra itself because there were
47:21
liner notes within the original Star
47:23
Wars album.
47:24
>> That two records set that two record
47:26
set. Yes. that and I would sit and it
47:28
said, "Okay, in this track you hear the
47:31
French horns playing Luke's theme." And
47:33
I was like, "That's what a French horn
47:34
is. Oh, that's a French horn." Or the
47:36
obo playing. And I'm like, "That's an
47:38
obo." So, it was my very first as a kid
47:42
>> putting the pieces together, you know,
47:44
like that meme with all the strings all
47:46
over the place. It was the beginning of
47:48
that for me, you know, my first string
47:50
was laid, you know, and I and I so
47:53
>> me working on Rogue One was so much
47:55
about
47:56
>> just trying to live relive that joy of
48:00
that movie from that from my childhood.
48:02
And I don't know how many of you know,
48:05
uh, Michael's actually in the Force
48:07
Awakens.
48:07
>> I am in Force Awakens. I arrest Po
48:10
Damron. Yes,
48:13
that was me.
48:15
You're welcome, Darth Vader
48:18
or Kylo Ren, whatever it is, whatever,
48:25
>> you know. Uh yeah, actually it was
48:27
really fun that day. Uh that that's me
48:30
on the right on the right there uh
48:32
arresting him and it was so fun. I also
48:34
got to be in um later in the in the end
48:37
one too, the uh Rise of
48:38
>> Skywalker. Skywalkers. Yeah. So I was a
48:40
red Stormtrooper in that one.
48:42
>> Oh. Oh. I wasn't allowed to score in the
48:44
movie, so they let me be a Stormtrooper.
48:46
>> Fine. Fair fair exchange.
48:48
>> So, we haven't talked about Marvel yet.
48:51
>> Okay. What's What's your story about
48:54
getting involved with Marvel
48:55
superheroes? How far back it goes?
48:58
>> Well, I I'm embarrassed to say that they
49:02
had asked me to do um
49:06
Captain America.
49:08
I know. One of my great regrets of my
49:10
life. I didn't do it. Uh I know there
49:14
was so too many other things happening
49:15
at the same time. It just wasn't the
49:17
right time. It just wasn't going to
49:18
work. And I, you know, there's not a lot
49:20
I regret about my the stuff I've worked
49:23
on, but that's one that I cuz I do love
49:25
that movie. And then they asked me to do
49:27
Avengers.
49:32
I couldn't do it. Uh
49:35
and uh so I was like, well, they'll
49:37
never hire me again, you know, and
49:38
they'll never ask me again. whatever,
49:40
you know, it is what it is. Uh, but then
49:42
Kevin came to me was like, "Hey,
49:44
>> Kevin Feige, who runs Marvel, we love
49:46
Kevin." Um, so he came to me and said,
49:50
"Hey, uh, what about Doctor Strange?"
49:53
And I was like, "Yes." Uh, yes. One, you
49:57
know, part of the thing with the
49:58
Avengers was there's a there's a bunch
49:59
of characters, so you have to there's a
50:01
lot to navigate. And I I I was like just
50:02
feeling like I I don't know. I'm a
50:05
little at sea in that environment. But
50:07
with Doctor Strange, I was like, as a
50:09
kid, I remember going to flea markets
50:11
with my mo mother on Thursdays in New
50:13
Jersey. There was this place called
50:14
Columbus Mart and they would have these
50:15
giant flea markets and I would buy comic
50:18
books. I wasn't I couldn't buy new comic
50:20
books uh from the 7-Eleven cuz I didn't
50:22
have the money, but I could get the old
50:25
ones and I would get just stacks of them
50:27
from there for like a quarter. And in
50:29
that stacks was things like Doctor
50:32
Strange, Werewolf by Night, all these
50:35
things that like all the weird stuff,
50:36
you know, that was sort of like weird
50:37
and out there. And I really loved the
50:39
weird stuff so much. So when he brought
50:42
up Doctor Strange, I was like, "Yes."
50:44
And then he said, "Oh, at the same we're
50:47
also thinking about we want to redo our
50:48
our logo, our marble. Would you be
50:50
interested?" And I was like, "Yeah, I
50:53
definitely." And then as we're walking
50:54
out of that meeting, he was like, "Oh,
50:57
and there's this other thing we're we're
50:58
we're looking at doing in the next year
51:01
or so, Spider-Man."
51:02
>> And so it was like this, I was like,
51:04
"Yes, yes, my friend. Yes. Yes to all of
51:07
this. Yes to all of this." Maybe making
51:09
up for my my my uh past, you know,
51:12
discretions there. I
51:14
>> All right. So, we're going to come back
51:15
to Spidey in a second.
51:16
>> Okay.
51:17
>> But I want to ask about one of last
51:19
year's big Marvel hits, the Fantastic
51:22
>> 4.
51:24
I love Fantastic 4. I mean, it it hurts
51:27
a little bit that it didn't do as well
51:29
as we hoped. Um, but
51:33
it Yeah, I think so. Look, I I love the
51:35
movie. I love those characters so much.
51:38
Um, they are so in my wheelhouse of what
51:41
I want the world to be, which is a
51:43
positive sort of, you know,
51:45
collaborative environment. I really wish
51:47
the whole world would like that. Right.
51:49
Come on.
51:51
Uh, so it was a it was a chance to also
51:55
like write a piece of music that
51:56
reflected that. And in Marvel Land, I I
52:00
don't know if we ever had like a a theme
52:02
for one of these films that was in a
52:04
major key. You know, they always have
52:06
some sort of minor thing going on cuz
52:08
it's angst and it's tough and it's hard
52:11
to be a hero. And this was something
52:13
different. We were able to take this
52:14
approach of, no, this is what we want
52:16
the world to be. Let's see. And I
52:18
remember thinking, Kevin's like, what
52:19
are you thinking? And I said, "Well, I
52:22
think it's really for me it's a mashup
52:25
of of say like the Disneyland Electric
52:28
Light Parade, you know, uh it's that and
52:31
it's the right stuff. It's it's take
52:33
those two ideas and smash them
52:34
together." And that to me is the
52:36
Fantastic 4, you know, cuz I always
52:37
loved in the Disneyland Electric Light
52:39
Parade all the synth work and all the
52:40
really fun things and it just felt so
52:43
like, yeah, the world is great, you
52:45
know? Uh, so that's how I wanted this to
52:46
feel. So we he we needed to record
52:49
something early actually and it's, you
52:51
know, every once in a while you get
52:53
lucky and you get to record something
52:54
for a movie early on. It doesn't happen
52:57
often at all. Got to do it for Batman.
52:59
Got to do it for this. And they were
53:01
doing something at Comic-Con. So a year
53:03
be you know uh before we I wrote the
53:06
theme for the movie. So it sort of lived
53:09
on set. It lived in the characters
53:10
heads. The actors got to hear it. All of
53:12
that. And it sort of became a a thing
53:14
that helped unify the tone I think for
53:17
everyone. Uh which is very helpful
53:19
because a lot of times words just aren't
53:20
enough to explain, you know, uh what if
53:23
I'm working with an actor, a lot of
53:24
times I will have them listen to a piece
53:26
of music. sometimes one that I wrote
53:29
specifically for the thing we're
53:30
shooting or something else that but
53:33
there's something about when you hear a
53:34
piece of music you instantly sorry you
53:37
instantly you instantly just know where
53:40
to go emotionally you know it's it's
53:42
really helped so I think that so it was
53:43
fun to have this and play it at
53:45
Comic-Con a year early and and have it
53:47
out there they did this big crazy uh
53:49
drone show with it was anyone there for
53:51
that see the drone show and they also
53:53
did it at the premiere too which was
53:55
incredible um so yeah it We have a great
53:58
clip I want to play. Takes place at
54:00
Abbey Road.
54:01
>> Yeah. So, we recorded this film at Abbey
54:02
Road in London and the We had a 100
54:06
person choir on the film, right? Yeah. I
54:09
know. 100 people. And Abby Road said
54:12
they had never had 100 people in there
54:14
singing before. This is the first time
54:15
we had 101 person orchestra and a 100
54:18
person choir for the film. And we're
54:20
recording the choir and and and I said
54:22
at one point, I said, "Okay, I'm going
54:24
to do that. Let's take let's do one more
54:26
take but this time when we get to this
54:29
part instead of uh singing just you know
54:32
vowels like you're singing actually sing
54:34
the words fantastic four you know cuz I
54:37
thought who knows maybe and they did it
54:40
and I kind of loved it when I heard it
54:42
and I thought oh my god they're going to
54:44
hate this they're not going to like this
54:46
at all and I remember sending it to
54:49
Kevin and I think when I mentioned it to
54:51
Kevin I think his first response was
54:52
like oh I don't know I don't know But
54:54
then when you hear it, it's sort of
54:56
undeniable. Like you kind of I don't
54:58
know. Let's play it.
55:03
>> Fantastic.
55:22
God, isn't that great?
55:24
So,
55:26
>> the choir is, you know, very much like
55:29
the orchestra in that they come in, they
55:30
don't know what they're going to sing.
55:31
They just have to be able to site readad
55:32
it right there and then. Uh, and and and
55:35
it's like its own orchestra because
55:37
there's all these different parts. So,
55:38
you can really get really into the weeds
55:40
with how it sounds. It's an incredible
55:42
instrument to be able to have.
55:44
>> We only have a few minutes left and I
55:46
want to get to Spidey in a second.
55:47
>> Okay.
55:48
>> Talk to me quickly about directing.
55:51
>> Oh, yeah. We're woof by night. werewolf
55:53
by night. That was,
55:56
you know, I had made movies ever since I
55:58
was a kid and I loved monster movies so
55:59
much. King Kong is one of my favorite
56:01
movies of all time, the 1933. And I love
56:04
the idea of monsters because I feel like
56:06
they're just misunderstood people.
56:08
They're people with problems that that
56:09
people and they don't know how to solve
56:11
these problems. And most people in the
56:13
world look at them and think they're
56:15
less than. But if you take an empathetic
56:18
look at them, they're really they just
56:19
need help. they just need people to care
56:21
about them and help them. So, that's
56:23
what really drew me to this The Werewolf
56:25
by Night Show. Uh, you know, Kevin knew
56:28
that I had made movies. Kevin knew I
56:30
wanted to get back into directing again.
56:32
Um, and he said, "So, you know, we have
56:34
this thing coming up. It's called Disney
56:36
Plus. Uh, and we're going to be making a
56:39
bunch of things for it. If you if you
56:40
were able to make something for it, what
56:42
would you want to make?" And I
56:44
immediately said Werewolf by Night. I
56:46
said, "I want to do Werewolf by Night."
56:48
And he was just like, "What?" And I was
56:50
like, "Yeah." I said, "It's the weirdest
56:51
thing I can think of and I love it so
56:53
much." And he was like, "Okay." So, we
56:55
started that whole process. So, it was
56:57
really, you know, and it was a blast. I
56:59
loved it. And I got on set and I I
57:01
haven't felt that at home at work for
57:04
the longest time cuz writing music,
57:06
there's a part of me that feels like a a
57:08
charlatan in some way cuz it wasn't the
57:10
thing that I thought I'd be doing. You
57:12
know, I love doing it. It's incredible
57:14
to be a part of it in that way, but
57:16
making movies was all I did growing up.
57:18
So, it felt like a return to that. It
57:20
was a really fun thing. And then to get
57:21
to write the music for it as well was
57:23
also a blast. So,
57:24
>> so that brings us to Spider-Man.
57:26
>> Yes.
57:28
>> And it seems your fascination with
57:30
superpower directness goes way back.
57:32
>> I drew that I drew that yesterday. Isn't
57:35
it great?
57:37
>> No, I drew that probably when I was 8
57:38
years old, eight or nine years old. So,
57:40
uh I No. And I have a whole sketchbook
57:42
filled, weirdly, with all of the movies
57:45
that I then went on to work on. I have
57:47
pictures of Planet of the Apes, pictures
57:49
of Star Trek, pictures of Star. Like,
57:51
it's insane when you look at it. It's
57:52
almost like as a kid, I was saying,
57:54
"This is what I'm going to work on when
57:56
I'm older in some way. It's such a such
57:58
a weird trip." So, you've done four of
58:00
these films now.
58:01
>> Yes. and and um I'm curious for your
58:05
take on the fact that Brand New Day has
58:08
now made $1.7 billion
58:11
>> globally and is expected to be number
58:14
one again this weekend.
58:16
>> Yeah.
58:16
>> What do you make of that?
58:17
>> It's insanity. It's insanity. It's it's
58:20
it's people love movies and they want
58:23
big fun but emotional movies. They want
58:26
real movies, I think. You know, and
58:27
these characters, especially Spider-Man,
58:30
he is one of the ones of all of them
58:32
that you can probably relate to the most
58:34
because he is always in way over his
58:36
head and h and I feel like most of life
58:40
that's how I feel. I'm always in way
58:42
over my head, you know. So, that is
58:45
something I think we all can relate to
58:47
in a big big way. And not to mention,
58:49
he's a character that we've watched grow
58:51
up over the three previous movies, you
58:53
know, and then to land in a place where
58:55
he's suddenly alone, no friends, no
58:59
family. Like, we all know what that
59:01
we've all felt those things before. We
59:03
all have felt that idea of loneliness
59:05
and disconnection. And I think this
59:08
movie is such a it's it's like a it's
59:10
like some it's like a huge a big warm
59:12
hug for anyone who's ever felt that. And
59:15
what did you need to do musically to
59:17
reflect that? Well, for me it was like I
59:19
I honestly didn't know what I was going
59:21
to do at first. I was a little like
59:23
worried like this is my fourth
59:25
Spider-Man and I've never done four of
59:26
anything. I was like, do I even have
59:27
anything else to say about this? But
59:29
after discussing it with Destin and
59:31
understanding the emotional depth that
59:33
he wanted to get into, I started I
59:36
thought, "Oh, I got to write a whole new
59:37
theme." So, I started writing a brand
59:38
new theme for the thing and it just
59:40
wasn't feeling right. I was like, "No, I
59:42
don't So, I threw that out and I just
59:45
went back to the old theme and I was
59:46
looking at it and I was just like, well,
59:48
what if I take pieces away of this theme
59:50
and if I simplify this? If if I remove
59:53
all of the extraneous notes that would
59:55
represent his friends, his family, his
59:58
past life, all of the things he had that
1:00:00
he doesn't have anymore, what's left?
1:00:03
And instead of having
1:00:06
then you just haveum
1:00:10
and that just feels sad right right off
1:00:13
the bat you're just like oh and I was
1:00:14
like that's that's all I really need and
1:00:17
then it was about plugging those things
1:00:19
in slowly as the film moved on to to get
1:00:22
him back to a place where where he was
1:00:25
feeling confident again you know
1:00:28
understanding where he is you know he's
1:00:30
it was lost and it's about how did he
1:00:32
find himself self. So, it was really,
1:00:35
really cathartic in a lot of ways to do
1:00:37
this movie and really kind of break it
1:00:39
down and put it back up again.
1:00:42
Well, I'm sure you'll all agree that
1:00:44
he's not just a great composer, he's a
1:00:46
great recon tour. Please help me thank
1:00:48
Michael.
1:00:50
Heat. Heat.
#Travel & Transportation